Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 1
Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): John “Tote” Turner
Place of Interview: Hub Insurance, Jackson, Teton County, Wyoming
Date of Interview: 9 August 2017
Language: English
Interviewer: Michelle Jones
Recordist: Rebecca Goodson
Photographer: Ross Garner
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems with foot pedal
Transcribed by: Susan Gross 13 September 2017
Transcript Proofed by: Randy Williams, 15 September 2017; John “Tote” Turner, 2 October 2017: no edits suggested
Brief Description of Contents: Mr. John “Tote” Turner talks about his memories of growing up on the Triangle X Ranch. He talks about his life decision to move his family from back east, back to Jackson. He briefly tells of significant life events, including college, meeting and marrying his wife, and his children and career.
Reference: MJ = Michelle Jones
JT = John Tote Turner
RG = Rebecca Goodson
ARG = A. Ross Garner
NOTE: False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets.
Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 2
TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
MJ: This is Michelle Jones, interviewing John “Tote” Turner, at Hub Insurance, in Jackson, Wyoming, for the Utah State University and University of Wyoming Folklife Dude Ranching Project. It is August 9th, 2017, and I am here with my recordist, Rebecca Goodson, and my photographer, Ross Garner.
Thank you, Tote, for taking some time out of your day to be interviewed.
JT: You’re welcome.
MJ: Can you please state your full name and year of birth?
JT: Alright. Full name is (correctly) John Francis Turner, born [19]70.
MJ: Okay, thank you.
JT: You bet.
MJ: And can you please tell us how you relate to the rest of the Turner family?
JT: So, I am fourth generation: Dad is third generation, his name is John Turner as well, and he is a partner in the Triangle X Ranch.
MJ: Perfect. And can you tell us about your immediate family?
JT: My immediate family: I am married to Christine Turner, and we met back east, while spending some time in northern Virginia. And I have three children: Janna, Johnny, and Maria. And they’re (obviously) the fifth-generation clan. And I’m very fortunate to be able to raise them here, in Jackson, and raise them on the Triangle X, which is great.
MJ: So, do you live in Jackson right now?
JT: We do. We have a home just south of town.
MJ: Okay. And how much time do you spend on the Triangle X Ranch?
JT: We probably spend three weeks there every summer.
MJ: Okay.
JT: And then weekends in the winter and spring and fall. Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 3
MJ: And why do you think it’s important for your children to spend time on the ranch?
JT: I think the ranch legacy is pretty cool, the fact that there’s not many kids that get an opportunity to call Grand Teton National Park their backyard. And all the cool things that they get to do up there, that very few kids have any exposure to. That include (obviously) riding horses, floating the Snake River, and obviously the great hikes that you have off the ranch.
MJ: Thank you. And can you tell us a little bit about your childhood, growing up on the Triangle X?
JT: You bet. Like I said, it was a very enchanted childhood being able to grow up [on the ranch], and out our backyard have a forest to build forts in, have horses to be able to ride the property with. We kind of all grew up as siblings on the ranch: myself and my immediate cousins.
So, as you’ve spoken to some of the other cousins, there was eight of us all together on the ranch, right? So, five from both Uncle Donald [Lucas and Elizabeth] and Uncle Harold [Matt, John A., Robert], and we all grew up as basically siblings. [John Freeland Turner children: John “Tote,” Kathryn, Mark.] Whether it was, like I said, building forts, exploring in the summer months, riding horses in the back country during the summer and fall.
And then in the winter having so many hills to be able to sled down, and just to have that as your backyard, and grow up so closely I thought was really cool. And just as a kid, to think that every young child grew up like that; and now to find out that’s not the case. But it was a real special place.
[03:15]
To be able to grow up with my grandmother, and my dad, and two uncles, and everybody on the Triangle X. Got a great exposure (obviously) to the out of doors, and the history of what a great place that is; of course, don’t appreciate it until now. But anyway, it was a wonderful place to be able to spend my childhood.
MJ: Thank you. Can you share any particularly memorable experiences from your childhood growing up?
JT: Yeah, a couple. I still visit the places with my kids where we built tree forts. We had a number of different camps (we called them) where we would break off into teams and have sword fights, and pretend like we were gladiators for a day. And I have fond memories of running through the sagebrush and putting up lean-tos, and tree forts, and all kinds of great things, building swords.
Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 4
Vivid memories of just using my imagination as a kid. We’d all get together with these imaginations. And you know, I grew up in the era of Star Wars, when it first came out. So, we all thought we were Jedis, and what have you. [Laughs] Of course, our idols were the stars of the early Star Wars films. But to be able to grow up and have those memories of just not a concern in the world, of being able to go out your backyard and not worry about safety, and traffic, and things like that was: for me was very memorable.
I do remember in the winter time with cousin Matt (who you interviewed), sledding down a hill once and getting my leg trapped underneath the sled, and breaking my leg and having Matt drag me back to the ranch to be taken to the doctor’s office. That was an experience.
[05:14]
Many pack trips in the back country that we used to be able to do as kids: 20-25 miles back in the back country, where you’d have my brother, where he’d broken his leg and had to ride out in middle of the night to the hospital. Or just all kinds of great fishing, and running through the fields, and all that stuff as a kid are probably my fondest memories.
MJ: Thank you.
JT: You betcha.
MJ: Did you ever get in really big trouble?
JT: Yes, yes. So, one time my cousin John and I, and another one of the guest kids from the ranch, were lighting fireworks off in an ant pile, trying to blow up ants. And we got distracted and went off to another activity. Well that ant pile was right behind my Aunt Bernice’s [Harold’s wife] home, and of course, caught on fire. Thank goodness, she was home and saw it, and was able to put it out [laughs].
I remember being grounded for days for that. Other just not checking in and wondering off and you know, going down by the river and getting in trouble for those kinds of things. Being where I wasn’t supposed to be. But the ant pile story is what I remember most vividly about getting in trouble.
MJ: Thank you. Can you tell us about some of the occupations you held on the ranch?
JT: I started out, before I could get my driver’s license, I started out as a cookout cook on the ranch. So just someone who would cook for the different supper floats in the evenings, and the guest dinner rides. And you probably saw on the ranch, we had a Sunday cookout site down across from the cabins. And then we have another place on the river. And so, 14 years old, that was my job, was to serve up fried potatoes and pork chops and corn for the guests. Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 5
And then once I was able to drive, then I was able to move up to float trips, and was a shuttle driver for several years in high school. And then during my college summers, I came back and was a river guide. I spent time on the Snake River guiding scenic float trips, and then was able to guide fishing trips too (which I loved to do).
[07:30]
So those were my jobs growing up on the Triangle X.
MJ: And do you have any memorable experiences from some of your occupations that you held?
JT: Just for the people mostly, for the people I worked with. I worked with some great people growing up and had some great role models on the ranch. And I do have some fond memories of just working with various folks. Starting out in cookouts, learning how to drive a stick shift (you know, a standard transmission). And then from there, working my way up into the float company.
And I would say I met a lot of wonderful people throughout the years, and worked with a number of great folks, and guided a number of great people on the river.
MJ: Do you have any enduring friendships with some of the guests that either you met as a child, or helped to lead later on in your life that you still have today?
JT: Yes. Yep, so it was fun to go up there in the summer time, and see returning guests from 30, 40, 50 years even, that have been coming to the Triangle X. And obviously, grew up with their children (who are my age), and now obviously have their own families that don’t make it back to the ranch, but their parents still come out. And that’s kind of neat.
As a young kid, 20-something-year-old (and even younger), guiding some of these folks on the river, and now come back with my own family, and be able to introduce them to some of these folks. But yes, I do have very fond memories of guests that still come back over the years.
MJ: Can you walk us through a typical day, either on a float trip, or maybe as a fishing guide?
JT: You bet. So, early morning, obviously everybody shows up at seven a.m. breakfast, and that’s when your day starts. We used to have a sunrise trip that used to leave around five a.m., and so your day would start a lot earlier then.
And you get back to the ranch, or after breakfast, you would basically get your boat cleaned and rigged for the day, and you’d meet your clients out in front of the main Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 6
house. And it would be all day on the river, five to six [pm] at night, sometimes. And I remember you just worked long days.
As I got older, there wasn’t as much time to get in trouble, because you’re tired to do so. So, it was breakfast time to supper time, and even later in the evenings you’d be on the river, working and serving clients, basically, that either stayed on the ranch or travelling through.
[10:03]
So that was kind of the work day. Dad and my uncles, you had to work hard, you had to earn your keep on the ranch. Everybody worked hard, so it motivated you to keep up.
MJ: And what makes a good float trip guide?
JT: Being able to be up on your feet and on your toes with clients. You know, you’ve got to like people (obviously) to do the same thing, talk about the same stuff day in and day out. I think you’ve got to love being with people, learning about people’s backgrounds, where they’re from. And that’s a cool thing about being a river guide.
But obviously strength to row, you know, ten to 12 adults down the river. And yeah, and I would say strength, focus, and just being very good with people, and not tiring of that would be what I would say would be the traits of a good river guide.
MJ: Thank you. And we’ve been wondering, how did you get the nickname Tote?
JT: So, great-granddad, he had a great friend growing up in elementary school. And they were childhood friends, and obviously through adulthood they were lifelong friends. And he had a speech impediment and couldn’t pronounce my great-granddad’s name. And so, John Turner became John Tote. And that’s how he could pronounce his name. And it carried through his adulthood, and through his life he adopted the nickname “Tote” from this good friend of his.
Well, so when I was born there was Dad (John), and I have an older cousin (John); so, I was the third John going to be raised on the ranch. And so, Dad said, “We’ll give him the name John, but we’ll nickname him Tote.” And so that’s how they came up with that, is from my great-granddad.
[12:08]
I credit him for being a little bit unique and original, I guess. So, yeah.
MJ: Thank you.
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JT: Yeah.
MJ: And then your sister, Kathryn, mentioned that you grew up with a lot of rehabilitated animals around; do you have any specific memories of those?
JT: Yeah; so, we had a horse, Solo. And he was an orphaned colt, so we had to bottle feed him when he was a colt. Dad would rescue eagles that had either hit a power line, or get hit by a vehicle. And we’d fence off the backyard, and he would help rehabilitate them back to care. But I mean, back then you didn’t have a raptor center, and didn’t have some of these animal service centers you do today.
So, if you found a wounded coyote, or a bird, you kind of bring them in and rehabilitate them. And like I said, we had horses. Solo is the one that comes to mind, where you just kind of take an orphaned animal, or an injured animal, and just kind of help them get back out, so they can get back in the wild again.
MJ: Did you kids have a big role in helping with that? Or was it mainly your dad?
JT: Dad for more for the eagles, for more of the raptors, and the coyotes and things it was mainly Dad. But we all had a role in our horses; so, whether it was an orphaned horse, or a lame horse, we all had to take a role in caring for that animal.
MJ: Can you tell us a little bit more about the horses you had growing up?
JT: You bet. So, when I was a kid I had this horse (this white mare) called Star. And she was a great horse for kids; a great trail horse. You wouldn’t get in any trouble with her. And that was my first horse. And then she gave birth to a colt named Champ, and he was more of a gray. And he was my horse through high school. And so, I just had, really had two horses through my childhood; but they were both great horses. And so, yeah. Fortunate to have a horse.
[14:27]
MJ: Yeah; thank you. And can you tell us about any remarkable experiences you may have had out on trail rides?
JT: Other than, you know, every kid (I think) gets bucked off once in their life (that grow up on a ranch). And so, whether a horse trips in a squirrel hole, or something like that; I have a few fond memories of bruises of when I’ve been horseback riding.
But you know, back when I was a child there were a lot of beaver dams on the ranch, you’d run your horse through beaver dams, which would be fun; over logs, and just kind of the adventure. We used to do a lot of horse games, once upon a time, that I remember: you know, Red Rover, and Willow Tag, and all kinds of fun games that you might play Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 8
on foot, but we had the opportunity to play on horseback, which kind of improved your riding skills quite a bit.
MJ: Can you explain the rules of some of those games that you used to play?
JT: Well Willow Tag was easy: just one person was it, and you just didn’t want to get tagged. So, they would chase you through the willows, and as you got tagged, you were “it.” And it was the last person standing was the one who was the winner. So, it was basically horse agility skills and it was just fun. You’d hide in the willows and you’d try to get found – or try not to get found. And if you did get found, you’d hope your horse was faster than the one chasing you.
And then Red Rover is the same kind of thing. “Red rover, red rover, everybody come over.” And so, they have a couple of people that are it, and then you would start your horses here, and you’d ride through the field and hopefully try to get to the other side without getting tagged. I just remember, as a kid in the open fields, that was a fun game.
And one thing we don’t do on the ranch anymore (for liability purposes) is – I don’t know if the kids talked about the Jim Conna? If any of my cousins [talked about that]? And we used to do that in a pen, and all the guests and wranglers would participate. And then it kind of got wild, everybody would wear a balloon on their belt. And the point was to pop someone’s balloon. If you pop their balloon, they were out. So, you would obviously want your balloon to be the last one. And it kind of got pretty crazy, you know.
[16:42]
Obviously, we would do three-legged races, and we would do bareback races, and whose course was the fastest, going back and forth in the corrals. And that always got pretty interesting. But in today’s world, you’ve got to do a little more tame activities while on horseback. But those are pretty my favorite memories while horseback riding.
MJ: When you got tagged, did you have to tag the person, or could you tag the horse?
JT: No, they had to tag you.
MJ: Okay.
JT: So, you had to touch their leg or something, technically, or back. Yeah, you’d have to get the person, not the horse, as I remember it. So, yeah.
MJ: Perfect.
JT: It was fun, absolutely a lot of fun. Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 9
MJ: And kind of back to the Triangle X Ranch, what do you think makes the Triangle X Ranch stand out?
JT: I think it’s 91 years of doing the same thing, you know? We still offer the same guest service, the same three meals a day, the same horseback rides. Obviously, the terrain is (I think) unmatched: the amount of trail space we have makes the Triangle X unique opportunity.
But it’s really an opportunity to go back in time. We still don’t offer phones in the cabins, TVs in the cabins; no pools. I mean, if you come out to the Triangle X Ranch, you know what to expect year after year. And I think that’s what appeals to a lot of folks, is those that love to horseback ride, those that love good food, good company. You know, obviously, beautiful scenery; I mean, you can’t beat the scenery, as you found out.
But I think what really makes the Triangle X really stand out, and why we’re here over 91 years, it’s family run, family operated. And it’s the same family that has been operating it since it was purchased in a homesteader in 1926, just different generations.
But I think that’s special. And I think maybe the guests would tell you that is their most favorite thing, is knowing that they’re going to come back to the Triangle X, and it’s still going to be the same family-owned operation that they remember coming to years ago.
[18:53]
MJ: And how would you explain the Triangle X Ranch to a stranger?
JT: I say (well I used to say) city slickers, take away the cattle. You know, it’s you’re coming out, you’re riding your horse. It’s no frills. A dude ranch means that it’s horseback, you know, a working dude ranch because we grow our own hay. So, the Triangle X still provides all its own hay. And it’s rustic cabins, it’s two horseback rides a day. This magnificent backyard, looking at the Grand Tetons. And it’s just a very unique opportunity for vacation. So that’s kind of how I kind of explain it to folks.
MJ: Thank you. And have your kids also worked on the ranch?
JT: Not yet; we hope to. Our oldest is 12, so we’re hoping that Janna, we can introduce her to work on the ranch. We hope to have all three of our kids play a role in the Triangle X, hopefully over the next couple of years.
MJ: And why do you think that’s important?
JT: I think it’s important because, most importantly, they learn a good work ethic, I believe, up there. But they get a great idea of their family heritage. It’s a unique opportunity that most people never get an opportunity to do. I have a lot of friends tell me now, “Gosh, I Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 10
wish I would have thought to work on a dude ranch during college, or right after college. What a unique experience to be able to say you’ve spent time working on a ranch.”
And I remind my kids everyday how fortunate they are to be able to have access to a dude ranch like the Triangle X. And I want each of them to appreciate what it’s like to put in a full day’s work up there.
[21:09]
MJ: And what is their attitude, going up to the Triangle X every summer?
JT: They get excited about it; they do. They look forward to it; they realize it is a unique opportunity. They do look forward to playing with the guests each week, to be able to run freer than they can in the neighborhood in town here.
I do say that I don’t appreciate the Triangle X Ranch, I did not appreciate, nearly as much, growing up here, as I do now. And I’m going to tell my kids the same thing I tell other folks, “Go away to college, and then find some place to live for a couple of years. Leave the valley, and come back; but only after you’ve lived somewhere else.”
Because I mean, that’s how I’ve come to appreciate it so much more now, is after, you know, is leaving for school, then working out here. And getting a job back east was a wonderful experience, I loved it. I’m so grateful that my wife agreed to come back with me, and my kids, to be able to raise them here. And there’s never a day I look at the mountains, and they look the same; I’m so appreciative of being here.
So yes, they do love it, they do appreciate it; but I don’t think they realize what a special this is, at the moment.
MJ: Can you walk us through where you went to college, and where you’ve lived after you left the dude ranch?
JT: So, I went to school in Cincinnati. And after four years of school in Ohio, then moved back to D.C., where I spent some time working on the Hill for a couple of the Wyoming: one Wyoming senator and a Wyoming congress woman. And that was a four-and-a-half-year opportunity. I was just supposed to go back for a six-month internship, and it turned into four-and-a-half, wonderful years. I loved it back there, it was a neat experience. D.C. as a young 27-year-old was great.
[23:15]
Then after that, I left the Hill to work in pharmaceuticals: I was a pharmaceutical sales rep for about 15 years. And at that time (it was about seven years ago) that I convinced Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 11
my wife to move back here, to Jackson. And I’m so glad we did; it’s great to be home, for sure.
But it was a great experience. I have some wonderful college memories with friends, and some wonderful memories of northern Virginia and D.C. And I don’t regret a day I spent in either of those places. And here I am, and it’s great, because I’ve got folks that want to come out and visit.
MJ: And what were your wife’s reactions to Triangle X?
JT: She thought it was always an ideal place to live. We’d vacation out here, and she thought, “God, what a wonderful opportunity it is to come up to the Triangle X and ride horses, and hike,” and all these great activities, as a visitor.
And now that she’s out here, she (like myself) we’re both very grateful to be able to have that opportunity to be able to go up there and help out on the ranch, and visit with guests, and be able to raise our kids back here.
But yeah, it was an ideal situation that turned into reality. And so, she’s as much of a fan as I am, which I’m very grateful for.
MJ: Thank you. Now I’m going to open it up to my colleagues, to see if they want to ask you any additional questions.
ARG: Okay; I’ve noticed in interviewing all your cousins, that education is a pretty high priority for all of you. I was wondering if you have a sense of where that emphasis on education came from? Was it from your parents? Was it from your grandparents? Why do all of you have these great college educations; where was that emphasis from?
JT: You know, it’s great. Well Mom and Dad both college educated. Dad came back to the ranch after getting his Master’s degree, while working on his doctorate. So, college was very important to both Mom and Dad.
My grandmother, who graduated from high school and had no further education, was really a worldly woman, and very savvy business woman. And she always pushed college on her grandchildren. And she was a big influence in leaving the ranch, going off to college, getting a degree, having an opportunity to do something she never did.
[26:02]
It was very important: it was understood from Mom and Dad that we would just go to college, and always had an opportunity to come back to the ranch. But it was instilled in us from Mom and Dad, as well as my grandmother. And it was very important to them that while we have an opportunity to grow up on this ranch, education is so important, Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 12
because it opens so many doors. And this may not be your life, and may not be where you want to settle; and therefore, you need to get out and see the world, and be educated.
And so, we all got wonderful opportunities to go off to some really good schools, and have that opportunity to be educated. Which again, came down from our parents, as well as my grandma.
ARG: Was that your grandma Louise?
JT: Louise, yep.
ARG: Okay.
JT: Yep. She was really a bright woman, and fascinating to talk to, and really well-educated, for someone (like I said) just graduated from high school. And so, yeah, she really kind of pushed us every bit as much as Mom and Dad.
ARG: Cool. And you mentioned (in referencing your trail riding and being a cooker, a server for the guests), what kinds of foods were they that you served? And did you help cook them? And was it always the same meal every week, and you ate the same meal every week? Did that ever get monotonous?
JT: You know, it did. No, it was every Wednesday night was our cookout on the river. And so, it was always corn on the cob, always fried potatoes, and pork chops, and a salad. And that’s what it was every week; and it never varied from the menu. And so, yeah, you got a little tired of pork chops, and potatoes and corn, and salad and bread. But that was the meal on Wednesdays.
And then Sunday nights, it was hamburgers. And it was similar; you may swap out the corn for the beans, but you still have hamburgers and fried potatoes. And so that was our staple for Sunday and Wednesday.
[28:15]
And then on Friday mornings, it was kind of neat (the Triangle X no longer does this) but when I was a cookout cook, we did sourdough pancakes every Friday morning, on Spencer’s Mountain, up behind the ranch. And that was probably my favorite cookout to do: get up early and go up on that ridge, and be able to cook breakfast for everyone. But the treat was (obviously) sourdough pancakes every Friday morning, and we since don’t do that.
Yeah; but it was the same every week, for those three cookouts.
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ARG: Were any of those recipes like family trademarks? Like the sourdough pancakes, was that something unique to Grandma Louise, or just –
JT: No. Our ranch foreman at the time (he’s since moved back to Michigan, and is retired), but his name was Jim Colombo. And he still has the same sourdough starter that he introduced to the Triangle X. And that was his deal; it was his sourdough starter that we used every week for four summers, I guess, is as long as I served. So that was his recipe for sourdough.
And then grandma did have some great recipes that she introduced to the. She was a great cook, by the way. And she had some great salads and chicken dishes, and things like that, that we would eat on a regular basis at the main house.
But the cookout just kind of, over time, meals kind of evolved.
ARG: One last question: when you were in D.C. working, was that the same time your dad was working in Washington?
JT: So yeah. I was in college during Dad’s first stint back east, for the Department of the Interior. And by the time I had gotten out of college, he had left the government. And the time I spent on the Hill, he was not with the government; but he did later come back and work for the State Department, while I was still in Virginia, just it was in the pharmaceutical industry. But we never overlapped. I was never on the Hill while he was over at the Interior or State Department.
You betcha.
[30:30]
SJ: We’ve heard a little bit about your Grandmother Louise being a very special woman, and I was just wondering if you had a favorite story or memory of her that you could share?
JT: Gosh, Grandma was a very important part of our lives, for sure. And she took an interest in each one of her grandkids. And she was a wonderful role model, very classy woman; like I said, very business savvy, very good with guests, great outdoors woman, and all that good stuff.
Grandma had a fond memory for sports, in particular football, basketball, boxing: she was a huge boxing fan. So, my fondest memories of my grandma’s, we spent a lot of time in her living room, watching ballgames with her. And that was a great time catch up and find out how she was doing, and vice versa.
Grandma used to love to do, and I think all of us kids took time to do it, was she would go back up during the wildflower bloom every summer, and pick flowers for the tables, Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 14
for center pieces on the tables. It was real important that we had wildflowers on each of the tables. And she loved the wildflowers.
And so, I remember, as a kid, go up there with scissors and a bucket (a vase) with water, and help her (go back in the forest) clip wildflowers to put in vases to set on the tables, for the week. And every weekend we’d do it, as they would go out of bloom. And I remember, as a kid, joining my grandmother on those outings to collect the wildflowers for the tables.
And that was probably my two fondest memories that I shared with my grandmother, for sure: were sports and those outings. Yeah, I just remember, fortunate, obviously, all of us growing up together: have so many fond memories of Grandma, aunts, and uncles, cousins; we all grew up real close.
And it’s kind of neat that we all get along as well as we do, for being in a family business as long as we all have, everyone gets along really well, and looks out for one another, and takes interest in each other’s families. And so that’s been a great opportunity.
[32:57]
And obviously you went through the museum, and saw all the photos of Grandma. I am reminded of a lot of great memories too, from those.
And another thing Grandma did, is she would always come out and support our high school sports. So, she would always come to our football games, and any of our high school athletic events. She was a big supporter of Jackson Hole sporting activities, and so she was always at our games; never would miss a game in the winter or fall. So, yeah; absolutely.
SJ: So, your younger sister was the first Turner female born in 60 years, is that right?
JT: Right. So, after Grandma (obviously), there were three boys. And then there was cousin Matt, cousin John, and myself (are the three oldest of the grandchildren). So, when Kath was born, it was yeah, the first lady on the TX in 60 years. And then after Kath, there’s my cousin, Liz.
SJ: Um-hmm.
JT: Lucas’s sister. But that’s pretty much it. Now there’s a lot of fifth generation ladies in the family, since.
Yeah, so Kath, she had to grow up tough, with all these boy cousins. I mean, she would come out and do all the same fun activities that we did. And we didn’t have a friend to Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Folklife Project: John “Tote” Turner Page 15
play with, so I’m sure she had a lot of stories, playing with her cousins, and what have you. Doing all the boy stuff; so, yeah.
SJ: Would you be willing to share the story of how you met your wife, and how you guys first started being in a relationship together?
JT: Yeah. So, sister Kath is the reason we’re together. Christine and Kath went to undergraduate together. They weren’t real close at Notre Dame, but they knew of each other.
[34:54]
So, after graduation, Christine went down and did a mission: two years at an orphanage in Honduras. And became fluent in Spanish. And after those two years, she came back to D.C. Her parents had retired in Richmond; came back to northern Virginia to work in a Spanish-speaking, non-profit organization: a community development project.
And they had a mutual friend, Christine and Kath did; her name is Kristy Keys. And they were both very good friends with this individual. And Kristy notified my sister, who was living in a house with (I think) three other girls, and they had an extra room that there was this friend of theirs, from Notre Dame, that needed a place to stay, would they be looking for any roommates? And Kath said, “Sure, we’d love to have Christine.”
And so, they were roommates together in Arlington, Virginia. And we were just friends for about a year before we started dating. I’d go over and see Kath, and we’d hang out; and Christine would be around, and got to be good friends by visiting the house, and visiting Kath.
And then so it was about a year afterwards that we were both training for the Marine Corps Marathon. And we just got to be closer through that process, and started dating. And so here we are. But that is all thanks to sister Kath for getting us together. So, yeah.
And then she never thought she would ever move out and live in Jackson; but it’s turned out to be a great, so far so good for the family.
SJ: Were you and your sister close growing up?
JT: We were; we are only 15 months apart. So, Kath and I (all three of us are pretty close). My sister and my younger brother, Mark, grew up pretty close. Yeah, we got along well; absolutely.
A lot of fond memories as kids, growing up; so, we’re pretty fortunate.
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SJ: The other question I had (last one) is if you could just tell us a bit about how you first chose to come back to Jackson, after leaving D.C.? And if that was at all difficult to convince your wife, then?
[37:11]
JT: Oh, absolutely. No, I knew leaving was the right thing to do, and after several years on the Hill, tired of the traffic, and the humidity. And I was kind of working to get back here. Well, then I met Christine. And we come back to vacation (like I was saying earlier), but never thought that there was ever a way we could both come back, make a living, raise a family here, in Jackson. Because the number of cousins there are, there’s just not enough opportunities for all of us to make a living at the ranch.
And so, you know, we talked about it quite a bit. And we’d come out over vacation; and we’d visit about it, and then we wouldn’t visit about it, for months on end. Finally, I don’t know if I just wore her down, or whether she just thought, “Okay, this is a window in our life where we can come out, see if it works. If it doesn’t, we can always go back to Virginia, and start back our life back there.”
So yes, it was difficult to get her talked into it at first. It was a huge leap of faith for her to leave her family (well her mom) in northern Virginia (and she has a brother back there as well). So, to leave her and his family to come out here. I’m really grateful to Christine for willing to pick up and move out here. And now she loves it as much as anybody. So, she’d be the last one you’d probably get out of here if we ever left.
SJ: Did you guys have your first child here in Jackson or in Washington D.C.?
JT: We had none of the kids here; we had all three of them in D.C. So, our youngest was a year old when we moved out here: she wasn’t quite walking yet. But they were all born back east. And so, yeah.
But here we are, and the kids are doing great. And I know my brother wishes he was out here with his three kids as well. And so, we’re pretty much the envy of the family, being able to be out here.
[39:13]
SJ: Is your brother still back east?
JT: He is. He’s in Falls Church; so, he still lives in norther Virginia with his wife. And I think she’s a Virginian, and I think they’re pretty much set. His kids are, one of them is going into high school (they’re a little bit older). So, I think that Mark and Annie are back there for a while.
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SJ: Before we conclude, I just want to ask if you have any other thoughts or memories about Triangle X that you’d like to share?
JT: You know, a lot of winter time memories. We went to, fortunate enough, we were able to go to a very small, outlying school (Moran). And I think there were six kids, I know there were six kids in my class (30 kids in the whole school). So, it was really like a private education, provided [laughs] through a public system.
And I do remember, you grow up very sheltered out here. Not as much anymore, Jackson has grown a little bit: it’s become a little bit more cosmopolitan than it was when I was a kid. But being able to grow up on the ranch, go to school seven miles north, in a small schoolhouse, with six classmates, a lot of wonderful memories there. Got to be very close with every one of them.
And I just remember a lot of times the roads would be, you know, we used to get winters, I remember, much colder and much [snow] deeper than they are now (this past winter was a pretty good one). But the roads would close a lot more, school would close a little bit more often. Temperatures would dip (often) 20, 40 below for weeks on end. So, I remember just [laughs] bundling up.
I remember, we all shared (let’s see, the six [thinking] yes). So, myself, my two siblings, and Johnny, Robert, and Matt (who you met): we all used to share a snowmobile. And there’s photos of it, where we’d all jump on one snow machine and all had our seating order; and that was how we’d get to the bus stop every day, is to the front gate. We had a snow machine in the winter, bike in the fall and spring, to get down to the bus. And it was always a mad dash to get up, get some breakfast, and get to the bus, you know, without missing it. Those are fond memories.
I remember as a kid, going back up in the forest and shooting, learning how to shoot a BB gun and a .22 at a young age. And going up and squirrel hunting behind the ranch, and things like that that we used to do quite a bit more.
It’s quite a bit busier back up there, so you don’t do it as much; a lot more camping, and a lot more traffic than there was when I was a kid. So, it’s getting a little bit busier (I know it’s all relative); but I do remember a little quieter as a kid, being able to get out and do some of those things.
Obviously, floating the river with my dad at an early age, as a child, was a wonderful experience as well. But yeah, I mean I’m probably going to remember a lot of things when you leave. But I mean, there’s so many wonderful memories of being able to grow up out here; so, fortunate to have done so.
SJ: Thank you so much.
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As I mentioned off tape, this is going into a public archive, and will be searchable online, as well as accessible physically. Are you still okay with signing the release form?
JT: I am; I look forward to seeing the completed project. This will be great; so, thank you for doing this.
SJ: Yeah. Thank you so much for your time.
This has been Michelle Jones, interviewing John “Tote” Turner.
JT: You’re very welcome.
[End recording – 42:49]
Jackson Hole Dude Ranching Tradition: Triangle X, 2017
