April 28, 2008 Transcript - Janet Quinney Lawson

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LAND USE MANAGEMENT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Janet Quinney Lawson
Place of Interview: Ms. Lawson’s home; Salt Lake City, Utah
Date of Interview: April 28, 2008
Interviewer: Brad Cole and Barbara Middleton
Recordist: Brad Cole
Recording Equipment: Marantz PMD660 Digital Recorder
Transcription Equipment used: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive
Communication Systems
Transcribed by: Susan Gross
Transcript Proofed by: Brad Cole, February 2009; Randy Williams, 25 February 2009 and
14 July 2011; Becky Skeen, Fall 2012
Brief Description of Contents: Janet Quinney Lawson talks about her childhood memories at
her family’s summer home at Bear Lake and at family members’ homes in Cache Valley, Utah.
She talks a lot about skiing and sailing on/at the Wasatch Front, Utah and in Cache Valley and
Bear Lake.
Reference: BC = Brad Cole (Interviewer; Associate Dean, USU Libraries)
BM = Barbara Middleton (Interviewer; Interpretive Specialist, Environment &
Society Dept., USU College of Natural Resources)
JL = Janet Quinney Lawson
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops
in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with
brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[Tape 1 of 2: A]
BM: [This is Barbara Middleton of the] Natural Resources at Utah State University. [I am]
here with Brad Cole. Cole [interviewer] is the Director of Special Collections at USU
Libraries. And we are here with Janet Quinney Lawson in her home in Salt Lake City, on
a beautiful spring day. This is Monday, April 28th [2008] and it’s about 2-2:15 in the
afternoon.
So Janet, if you would please say your full name and when and where you were born.
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JL: My full name is Janet Quinney Lawson. And I was born here in 1922 at the LDS
Hospital, as I recall.
BM: In Salt Lake City?
JL: Uh-huh. I guess I was born there.
BM: Can I ask you, just to start off would you be willing to share the earliest memories of
your father?
JL: Yeah, I was kind of scared of him! He was not a child’s best friend or “daddy.” He was
stern and he lived and he made you kind of tow the mark. As I grew older I began to
appreciate him. He was a superman. I used to run the rivers with him.
BC: What was his name?
JL: My father?
BC: Yes.
JL: S. J. Quinney. Seymour Joseph Quinney.
BM: And running rivers – what kind of rivers are we talking about?
JL: Oh! Colorado and Hell’s Canyon and all the rivers of the west. We used to run them in
row boats. It was great fun; I loved it. And we would do that and pull out wherever we
pulled out. I know I went down the river when I was – gosh, I guess six months or more
pregnant with Peter (my youngest son). But I didn’t tell Dad and I wore, you know a
blouse that hung out. And he didn’t even [know]. He wondered, I think he said, on
occasions. But boy when I told him driving out of Preston, poor father! It was a real
blow! Now he wanted to know if Fred knew, and I said, “Well of course.” “Did your
mother know?” and I said, “Yes.” “Did she approve?” I said, “Sure she did, she thought I
was alright to do that.” And I loved it! It was great fun and I didn’t have any problem.
We went down Hell’s Canyon and came out at Preston maybe?
BC: Maybe Lewiston area?
JL: Yeah! Way up there –
BC: Right.
JL: On the Oregon – yeah we pulled out there and then we drove home. We brought a car the
bank had repossessed up in Preston, I guess, or some place for Aunt Eve who was
Bammie Eccles’ sister and never had any children and so she adopted all of Bammie’s
children and all of her grandchildren. And we were very close and she used to stay at our
house. Her husband was an engineer on the railroad and so he was out of town a lot. And
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she used to come up and stay with Bammie in Logan. Then she would come back here
and she would come up to the house. She lived out on the west side way out by Wasatch
High School and then she’d come in and up to the house and stay. And it was great fun,
she was a lovely person. She finally devoted a lot of her time to Bammie up in Logan –
she wasn’t really sick but anyway, she was getting old (in those days). They were half
sisters – same father, different mothers. So that’s what we did.
BM: So speaking of mothers, what is your earliest memory of your mom?
JL: My word! [Speaking to herself] Earliest memory [of] mom.
I don’t know! I guess running a pretty tight ship when I was little and not even in school
yet. But I had a friend – a life-long friend that lived across the street: Kay Henderson.
She was my dear friend. We used to go to school together. She’d go with us. She came
from a rather upbeat, youngest Dr. Dave’s family who was an eye, ear, nose and throat
[doctor] in Salt Lake. Kay and I – well we just plain grew up together. She didn’t have
quite as athletic of a background. She did fine, but she came from a family of kind of a
bunch of kids and they couldn’t spend the money for ski clothing and so on. We
remained friends all through our lives. She died three years ago in Cape Cod. It was a
good, long-standing relationship I must say.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: And it was fun to go over there because it was a big family. And I had only my brother
Dave who couldn’t be bothered much with me which was fine. But growing up in the
neighborhood but it was fun.
BM: Was she someone that went with you when you traveled to Bear Lake or Logan?
JL: Kay?
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: Oh yeah! She went to Bear Lake. Every year she would come up and go with us. They
were sort of, you know, more religious. Her mother didn’t like her to miss church, but she
did. My mother would talk her into it and say that she could go to church at Bear Lake. I
don’t remember if she ever did or not. Maybe we did a few times. I can’t remember
really. That wasn’t one of my great points in growing up.
BM: Would you tell us a little bit about some of your early memories of Bear Lake and
traveling over there?
JL: Oh. Wow. First thing that happened was that we had a seven passenger Buick. Now that’s
a pretty big car and it had little jumpseats. But we always had our dog, Tip, and I had the
cat, Tawny, and three kittens usually. And we would pile into the car and we’d chug
along and go up to Logan. And then we’d spend the night at Bammie’s house—Bammie
Eccles’ not Bammie Quinney’s—but Bammie Eccles’. Then we’d get up the next
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morning and mother would drive us [o]n that old, broken down road that was a one-way
road really, you know. People just didn’t go up to Bear Lake that way except people in
Logan maybe, but we did! We’d go up there and haul in.
That time we stayed up in Idaho – my first recollection of staying at Bear Lake was in
Idaho. Mother rented the Gray house. Mr. Gray was the First Security Bank’s president in
Montpelier, Idaho. Yeah, that’s how it was. He was there and we rented this house
because by now they’d fallen upon hard times, then they went through a depression. The
bank went bust, or whatever. It was kind of tough. But anyway, we rented that house for
quite a few years. Then mother went out buzzing around one day and the next thing she
did was come home and say, “I bought a house.”
So down at Ideal Beach was a house that was owned by a Mr. Boyer who was a very
successful (I don’t know what he was!) man – businessman. That went kind of belly-up
and he had to sell the house. And here was this house that was completely furnished,
lock, stock and barrel–silver and china and bedding and more bedding. And then Dad
bought the lot, finally he talked Sister Boyer (maybe; Sister somebody) – and he sweet-talked
her. On part of that lot there was a lumber mill. And they’d cut the logs which was
fine except all the sawdust they pushed into the lake. Well that doesn’t deteriorate really.
So we had many years where every time we’d go down everybody would take a bucket of
some sort. And we’d haul out the logging –
BM: Sawdust?
JL: Yeah. Well finally we got rid of it, I guess. Of course that was many a year ago. Mother
came home and Dad nearly had a fit! But what she got that house for was—lock, stock
and barrel. I think it was something like $800. It was just ridiculous! And it was the
house we had. Dad, finally when Mother told him and he went to see what was going on,
he knew the piece of ground. I don’t know what he did. A lawyer did that as a “Thank
you very much people.” And so he was in good standing with the locals.
They just got out and they cut that house in three parts and they moved it! And it wasn’t
out that much. It was just amazing! I remember when they did it and I remember Mother
went up to Bear Lake. And that fireplace of course was stone from across the lake. It was
a big hole because they had to knock it down when they moved the house. So all Mother
could see was this hole and oh she went into great sobs of mourning that the house would
never be the same. Well of course it is the same and much better, and added on to, to
some degree. We added on—we changed the kitchen quite a bit and added another
bedroom and bath back there because Mother always had somebody to go to help. That
extended the kitchen on out further and behind the kitchen was another bedroom.
BM: Um-hmm. Now Ideal Beach is – when I look at this map – Ideal Beach is south of the
Junction coming over to Garden City, but you were saying you were north to start off
with?
JL: Oh no, no, no. Here we are. Let’s see. [Looking at a map]
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BM: Here’s Ideal.
JL: Here’s Ideal. We’re down there to – what does that say?
BM: That says Ideal Beach, Sweet Water Marina. So they’re just showing –
JL: There, yeah well here’s –
BM: That’s the Highway rest stop down there. So right around Rendezvous Beach State Park,
which is very historic.
JL: Yeah. We moved it down about 2 miles that way and about one mile from Garden City.
BM: My goodness! And you literally picked up the house and moved it?
JL: Yeah, it was just crazy what they did!
BC: About what year was that, do you remember?
JL: Well I can think, but wait a minute. Let’s see – I think I was 16 maybe; 15 or 16. Yeah,
so how old would that make me? Since I’m 86.
BC: So it would have been about 1937.
JL: Yeah, something.
BC: You said you spent a few years in Montpelier [Idaho]? Would that have been in the early
1930s? When you lived in Montpelier and rented Mr. Gray’s house?
JL: No, that was in Fish Haven!
BC: Fish Haven?
JL: Down on the lake. That was their summer home!
BC: Oh, okay. So he lived in Montpelier, but also had a house [on the lake] – okay.
JL: Yeah they lived in Montpelier – Banker Gray – and had a beautiful home there. And
there was Grove and Fred. Fred was the oldest son, then they had Grove and then they
had a sister. What was her name? She was a cripple; she was born with faulty legs or
something, I don’t remember what. She was a lovely person but she was certainly
incapacitated. Times were hard. They opened up this fox farm in Fish Haven—Grove and
Fred. Fred first and then he went off and went into business and then Grove took it over.
And they raised these [foxes], they were a big thing in those days I guess.
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BM: And they were fox they were raising?
JL: Yeah, they were foxes.
BM: And what were they raising them for?
JL: For the fur.
BM: Okay. How interesting.
JL: Yeah, they really would. Fur coats; not really coats so much, it would take too many
foxes. Oh, I remember. I never went down there though when they were slaughtering the
foxes. That was not my cup of tea. Nor go out – yeah I did. I went out with them when
they would go buy an old horse that was tired and slaughter it to feed the foxes. And of
course you had to be down there every day. They had to eat. It was fun, I liked it. It’s
nothing anybody else would like, but I did. Getting all bloody! Mother used to just shake
her head and say, “My goodness, what have I got here?” See I was a little, bitty kid. I
wasn’t very big at all. I mean structurally I was very small, but boy I was a terror I guess!
Poor thing.
BM: Now did you go over there winter as well as summer?
JL: Huh-uh. No, never did.
BM: So mostly summer?
JL: Yeah. What we usually did was plan to go up there on, well around the 4th of July and
then we’d close it up to some degree and get somebody to come in and drain the water;
which we still do. But things are changing up there; very definitely changing. And I can
envision–we’re not building anymore house. Rick was talking, I know, about building on
to the bedroom wing and putting in another few bedrooms and a bath. I think we kind of
decided that wasn’t a good plan. Anyway, I don’t think it’s happening, and it’s not my
problem. I’m not going to be here to run that.
BM: So when you say, “things are changing up there,” what do you mean? What kinds of
things did you see change?
JL: Oh! Oh the building is simply incredible that’s going on. And across the street and on up
Hodge’s Canyon it’s all subdivided and people are building houses up on the hillside.
And then they come down and go probably over to Ideal Beach, Bluewater Beach and go
on to swim or put their boats in or whatever they have.
BM: Was that something that you did when you were a child, boating?
JL: Yeah. Dad had the only sailboat on the lake I guess, for years. And then we also had an
outboard motor boat and then we got – well, let’s see. What have we got up there now?
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Peter has a Hobie Cat up there. (Peter is my youngest son.) And he has this Hobie Cat
and he also has – yeah I think he’s got a motor boat too.
BM: So sailing was something that you learned from your father?
JL: What?
BM: Sailing was something you learned from your father?
JL: Yeah.
BM: Did your mother also sail?
JL: No, she didn’t. That wasn’t her cup of [tea]– she’d go out there sometimes with Dad.
They’d go out alone and just sail. Dad would sail very quietly, not too far out from the
shore. But, yeah she went out boating. She went out boating – I had a boat too. That was
a power boat. You know that lake isn’t constant. It varies – they pumped it out for
irrigation upstream. Well, they don’t want it anymore upstream. Anyway, last year they
pumped because the pumps would run out of – there was no water for them. And now
they’re going to let that go back. They’ve sold it to, I don’t remember the name of the
people they sold it to, but they are not interested in alfalfa which is what they used the
water for.
[Looking out the window] Oh, whoa. Looking out there at the sky, can you see?
BM: Oh yeah; leaving a jet trail.
JL: You see that? Yeah. Big old thing going across.
Dad had a lot of foresight. However people don’t know and we don’t tell them that we
have as much land as we have. But we’re well-protected on the north side and the south
side of our property. And it of course goes to the children and I guess they like it. I think
they’ll use it.
[Speaking to somebody else] Who’s that?
BM: Sounds like somebody is talking on the phone.
JL: Maybe.
And I don’t know, I just had some rare old times and fun times up there; very happy
memories. It [Bear Lake property] has this great, big screened-in porch that goes all
around half the house and the dining room table is outside. And there is a couch out there
and Grandfather Eccles’ rocking chair, old leather rocking chair. It just has lots of
memories. We have a book that we keep and people write in it.
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BM: Like the visitors that come?
JL: Yeah, yeah. And it’s nice and it’s fun. And it’s fun to look back and it’s fun to look and
see when I decided I better go home is when I was going to have that baby. And I did.
BM: [Laughing] Now which child was that then?
JL: It was Peter.
BM: Peter? Okay.
JL: Yeah. See, he’s 10 years younger. He was really an after-thought. He wasn’t a
happenstance – he was planned on and conceived. And he went down Hell’s Canyon with
me unborn. I didn’t tell Mother about it. I told Dad about it on the way home. And he
said, “Does your mother know?” And I said, “Yeah.” He said, “I thought you were
looking a little dumpy.” Yeah, that was May and Peter was born in August. Yeah, I was
well along. I didn’t care, that was fun. I skied and I did everything!
BM: Could you tell us a little bit about your skiing?
JL: Well –
BM: Where did you start?
JL: There is Ecker Hill up Parley’s Canyon; Dave and Dad got involved in that through the
jumping. Dad got interested in judging and got interested in the Norwegian people and he
judged all the time up there, ski-jumping. And that is how Dave got going. I didn’t ever
go off Ecker Hill—I was too little. I went off Rasmussen’s Hill which was down the way.
But heavens! I didn’t even have bindings then. I think we took inner tubes and cut them
and put them around the toe and around the outside of the toe and around the back. Those
were our bindings. That was many a year ago!
BM: That was inner tubing on wood?
JL: Well the inner tubing I used for bindings –
BM: Oh!
JL: They were like the old wood skis with a toe strap. That was it. And then you got a hold of
that and then you got a hold of the inner tube and cut a piece about that thick and put it
over your toe and over the toe of your boot and back over your heel and off you went on
Rasmussen’s Jump. And it was a scaffold that was built and came down and landed on
the hill and ran out. Oh, it was fun!
BM: How did you get up to the top?
JL: Climbed.
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BM: On snowshoes or boots?
JL: No, no. We just climbed on our feet on the little hill I jumped. But the boys, the big
jumpers – Al Bangerter and his tribe and us – they just put their skis over their shoulder
and walked up to the top.
BM: Hmm.
JL: Boy am I thirsty. Do you want some water or something?
BM: Actually, I’m fine.
BC: I’m fine right now.
JL: Are you? Alright.
BM: So those are the days before ski lifts and riding on top of the mountain.
JL: Dad did the first lift in Alta – Collins lift – he did that. I mean when I say he did it – he
got 10 business friends of his to each put in x number of dollars (which I don’t know).
Ecker Hill was there, but it was pretty rough and I think they used it, but not for
tournaments and things. But he did. They built that and set it up. Now how does that
work? I was thinking that it was the biggest ski jump in North America. Whether it was
there or whether it was – I don’t know – in the Northwest. I don’t know. I would have to
research that and look it up. But there wasn’t an awful lot of ski jumping even.
But then I got my first pair of skis. I was little – I didn’t grow very much.
[Tape 1 of 2: B]
JL: Celeste can get you something. These caregivers I have are just wonderful.
BM: Oh, I bet. It’s nice to have people here.
JL: Yeah. Well I didn’t have them here except during the day, but then I fell a year ago in
Moab and cracked it!
BM: So now you have someone with you day and night.
JL: I have somebody, yeah. I have two of them that are here day and night.
BM: That’s great.
JL: Yeah it is! I like it and they seem to like it, so.
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BM: So let’s go back to something you were saying. I am trying to picture the trip when you
were a young girl from, not just Salt Lake to Logan, but Logan over –
JL: To Bear Lake?
BM: -- to Bear Lake. I’m trying to picture that road.
JL: Well at first it was even just a dirt road. Mother in the seven passenger car and the cat and
the dog and a couple of kittens and Dave and I was there and BM was there I guess (or
some household help). And we’d go to Logan and stay overnight at Bammie’s house –
Grandmother Eccles’ house – and go chuckety, chuckety, chuck the next day. And
sometimes your old car would heat up and you would have to sit there and wait for it to
cool down so you could go on [laughing]. But we always stopped at Rick Springs.
BM: Oh, sure!
JL: That was very different then than it is now. Because, I don’t know what they’ve done but
you can’t even hardly see it without getting out and walking! Well, I mean it wasn’t that
way in those days.
BM: So you got there and you parked your car, and what did you do at Ricks Springs?
JL: Oh, we’d have a drink or have a sandwich or have some water. It was just halfway and it
was good and it was fun and it was nice. And we always did that. Now I flew past – well
I haven’t been up through Logan Canyon because it’s been all under construction and a
mess. And then going in Roy into Ogden – that highway is just one big, bloody mess and
I haven’t gone there. I don’t when that’s ever going to get done. And I don’t know when
they’re going to quit monkeying with that road up the canyon.
BM: Well they just did some bridge improvements, and that was quite –
JL: Oh yeah.
BM: -- quite a bit as far as stopping traffic one-way, and.
JL: Yeah, because that one bridge goes over a great, big –
BM: Oh, that’s the large one on the curve?
JL: Yeah.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: And I don’t know. I haven’t been up Logan Canyon—I don’t remember if I even went up
last year because I just get on and zoom up here to Evanston and then-
BM: So that’s your new route?
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JL: Yeah.
BM: Over 80 to Evanston and then up?
JL: Um-hmm.
BM: Um-hmm. Now when you went through the earlier part when you went through Logan
Canyon, did you ever go to some of the places like Ephraim’s Grave (the big bear), or ?
JL: Uh-huh. And they had, what an MIA Home or something?
BM: What is that?
JL: Up at the first dam or something?
BM: Oh!
JL: No, second dam I guess. And we used to cross the bridge and go up there and there was –
I don’t know and MIA. Maybe it wasn’t, maybe it was something else. I don’t know.
BM: Hmm.
JL: But anyway it was a camp and the kids used to go up there for, you know, camping out –
like Girl Scouts, only they were something else in those days.
BC: So when you say, “MIA,” do you mean Mutual Improvement Association?
JL: Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. [Mostly likely talking about Camp Lomia, past 3rd Dam a few
miles.]
BM: So was that possibly the Scout Camp at St. Anne’s?
BC: Might be, I’m not sure.
JL: What?
BM: Was it St. Anne’s?
JL: What ?
BM: The camp you’re talking about?
JL: I don’t know.
BM: Hmm. It was on the right hand side as you go up the canyon?
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JL: You went over the dam there, which they used, and the water that came out of there they
dammed it up. So, I don’t know what it was called. And besides it’s all different now.
Utah State has that big forestry place up there too.
BM: Um-hmm. Have you been there?
JL: Yeah. That’s Mr. Dad’s. I said, “Now you quit that!” He said, “Wouldn’t you rather have
me interested in it than somebody else?” I said, “Yes I would.”
BM: So this is the forestry camp?
JL: Uh-huh.
BM: That’s on the right-hand side as you go up.
JL: Um-hmm.
BM: And was the – let’s see was it 1938 was the first summer camp up there? 1936?
Somewhere in that time?
JL: Um-hmm.
BM: And so what is your dad have to do with that?
JL: Well, he gave them the money to start the training camp up there.
BM: Oh, okay.
JL: And bring the animals and so on.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: So that’s what he did.
BM: It is a very important place for a lot of the foresters to get their start.
JL: Oh I think so.
BM: Yeah.
JL: A lot of foresters. Um-hmm.
BM: Also fire. As far as training young men to help with forest fires.
JL: Now, that I didn’t know. But that’s interesting. It’s a good place, should be.
BM: Yeah.
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JL: I don’t know why I don’t. I think they have one cabin up there that they save for Dad and
Mother or for me or somebody to go up and stay overnight. I think I told somebody; who
would I have told –
BM: Was it Thad maybe?
JL: Uh-huh, probably Thad.
BM: So you have gone up and camped up at the Forestry Camp?
JL: Yeah!
BM: Oh, alright. Because there is one building that is the older building.
JL: Yeah!
BM: With all the pictures in it and the stove –
JL: Right, right.
BM: Okay.
JL: What’s that called?
BM: Well that is the old Forestry Camp CCC building.
JL: Oh yeah.
BM: And it’s the oldest building –
JL: There.
BM: It’s one of the oldest buildings there. And then there’s a larger dorm, which sleeps about
30 people.
JL: There?
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: Yeah, that’s right. I do remember that.
BM: Do you also remember – you know, part of that camp burned.
JL: Oh, it certainly did! I had forgotten that. It really burned.
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BM: The kitchen – the lodge.
JL: Oh, that was – they had to rebuild it totally didn’t they?
BM: We haven’t rebuilt it yet.
JL: Oh, I thought we had.
BM: No, not yet. We’re looking, we’re hoping. We’re hoping. But right now it’s an open area;
there’s a small trailer that was there that serviced some of the work, but nothing like the
beautiful lodge that you must remember.
JL: Yeah, although it was –
BM: The dining hall –
JL: Yeah. It was kind of little, as I recall.
BM: Was it?
JL: Yeah, it wasn’t like – in comparison to maybe the Girl Scout camp down here or –
BM: Camp Cloud Rim?
JL: Rim.
BM: Right, right.
JL: Camp Cloud Rim.
BM: Which was also a CCC building.
JL: Well I guess those lakes [cabins?] were owned by people, you know. They weren’t just
sitting there. I’m trying to think who – John Wallace; the Wallace family had up there.
And the Brimhall family; and I don’t know. Of course they gave it over to the Girl Scouts
and now they use it and have added onto it even since I was there.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: For the dedication of the building or whatever.
BM: And that was back in the late 1990s.
JL: I guess, yeah.
BM: Um-hmm.
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JL: I guess it was.
BM: Yeah.
JL: Did they name it for me or something?
BM: They did! Your name is on that building. [The Janet Quinney Lawson camp?]
JL: I just live in horror.
[Laughing]
JL: I say, “I’m giving you the money and you’re to go ahead, but don’t be putting my name.”
There it was.
BM: [Laughing] It’s on a building on campus too, up at Utah State.
JL: Yes it was! What was it – oh that little Quonset hut. Yeah! That’s a great place.
BM: That’s a great building though. [Ms. Lawson was recognized by USU in 2004 during the
dedication of a building named in her honor. The Janet Quinney Lawson building houses
USU's Utah Climate Center and Remote Sensing/Geographic Information Systems
Laboratory along with other services.]
JL: Oh, it is! I’ve been there when little kids have been there. One of them really attached
himself to me; poor little things.
BM: Was that the Adaptive Technology part where they’re in the basement there?
JL: Yeah.
BM: Is there a lot of children in that program?
JL: Yeah that are learning to speak or walk, or – yeah, they’re physically limited.
BM: Right.
JL: But it’s a great thing that they can do what they’re doing in that Quonset hut.
BM: Um-hmm. And they help a lot of children get around.
JL: Oh, I know. I just know they do. And that cute thing out in front of the Edith Bowen – is
it the Edith Bowen and Emma Eccles Jones, are they here?
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BM: They are. Emma Eccles Jones Building is the education building and then Edith Bowen is
the lab school, which is right next door.
JL: Yeah. Is it west or is it –?
BM: Edith Bowen is east –
JL: Yeah, it’s east –
BM: And then there is a sculpture –
JL: Yeah, that’s a Van Dam
BM: Right, right. With the two children and then the –
JL: Yeah, then, uh-huh. And then Aunt Em’s building.
BM: Right.
JL: Dad’s building is there too; Dad and Mother’s.
BM: Well that would be the College of Natural Resources building.
JL: That’s right.
BM: Right, right. And that’s right behind, that’s right to the south –
JL: South.
BM: Of your Quonset hut, that you call it.
JL: That’s right. Well, that’s what it is!
BM: It is! And you know there are still folks that come on campus that say, “I remember when
that was a Quonset hut.” And it kind of still looks like a Quonset hut!
JL: I think it does. Yeah, I do.
BM: It has the remote sensing lab in it now; where they do a lot of the geographic maps.
JL: Oh there?
BM: Um-hmm. There are several entities in that building.
JL: Besides the little kids?
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BM: Um-hmm.
JL: Oh. Well I just know that those little children – it’s wonderful when they can finally get
them out. They’re kind of timid about everything of course, because they’ve been so
protected; but, what a break for the parents and the children themselves to be able to get
out.
BM: And it’s also a great training center for the students.
JL: Terrific! Just marvelous!
BM: There are a lot of classes that go through there.
JL: Well there’s kind of a lot of Eccles/Quinney stuff up there somehow.
BM: There sure is! Now speaking of USU and getting back to Bear Lake – if you’re down
near Ideal Beach, aren’t you also close to the USU –
JL: Yes! That Dad built?
BM: Oh!
JL: I think Dad built that – gave them the money to build it. Yeah, it’s just down, maybe, oh,
maybe three-quarters of a mile on the road.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: But you can walk it. Of course now let’s hope that they’ll be good enough to – can’t I get
you anything? I feel so –
BM: No, I’m fine.
JL: I feel terrible. [Ms Lawson is concerned for her guest’s needs.]
BC: Oh, we’re fine.
BM: When you were there, you talked about sailing and you talked about swimming. Were
there also holidays, like Raspberry Days?
JL: Oh yes! And I remember when the raspberries weren’t [growing] because they got
diseased! A few years ago actually, that was. Oh yes, indeed!
BM: Hmm. So what did you do for Raspberry Days?
JL: Bought them and ate them.
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[Laughing]
BC: Well did they have – when you were a little girl, did they have raspberries then? Or did
that came later?
JL: No, I think that came later. I think that was started by the Hodges family and their boys.
And they planted those and then psh! I don’t know what happened. They got a disease
though, and it really – it was something they couldn’t spray and kill and have it alright. It
imbedded itself and would appear on the next year if you planted them. So, I don’t know.
And now – I don’t know what they’re doing now. They’re behind that – what’s that
called? That new place by the marina, only on the other side of the road?
BM: Oh that large development?
JL: Yeah. And then on up and up and up and up. Yeah. And that’s all being subdivided. And
honestly I think Bear Lake is seeing the best of times. It’s – I’m concerned. I think it’s
just going to develop and develop and more and more and more. And people are able to
get there and they’re building houses. I don’t know, Well, I’ve got enough space that I
don’t need to worry too much about it.
BM: When you were over there before the development, do you remember cattle or sheep, or –
with those hills where the homes are going – what was that landscape like?
JL: Yeah. They ran cattle up Hodges Canyon.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: They could run cattle up there. And they did and I don’t know whether they still can or
just don’t do it because nobody’s interested in doing that kind of thing. All those people
died; faded away. Although Rula is here and Dolly is here. And Dolly has died and Rula
– Dad bought the piece that goes in front of Rula’s house is on that side. And she – what
did they do? They finally got her to go over to Logan to live in a place, a house, a rest
home or something in the winter. Because they said they wouldn’t leave her up there in
the winter anymore, she couldn’t navigate. So I don’t know. I may see her, I hope so. I’ll
have to find out.
BM: And who is Rula?
JL: Well, she’s a neighbor on the east side. And they have a house. And Tom used to help
Dad all the time with the planting of the garden vegetables and so on, and mowing and
one thing or another. Well, he died and so it was Rula’s. And so she sold us this section
that was theirs, adjacent to our north boundary. It’s a south boundary and it’s a lot. And
there’s nothing there except, oh beautiful roses.
BM: Hmm.
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JL: I don’t know, I think one day maybe one of the kids will build something there. I’ve got a
few of them hanging around that are entitled to do what they want to do.
BM: Okay, so who’s the other person you were talking about? Dolly was another neighbor?
JL: Yeah and she was on the other side of Joel.
BM: Okay.
JL: And they just loved him. Oh they just did. And they just used to open our house and clean
it and so on. Of course those days have gone. Dolly died a couple of years ago I guess. I
believe she was a year older than I am; maybe two. And Rula is a year younger. I think
she had about 12 – Grandma Hodges. And oh, did she like Joel! He could just wiggle her
out of anything.
[Laughing]
JL: And then he would do a lot, you know, and they had legal problems. Dad would help
them out. And he was very kind. And they all knew it and all loved him for it and it was
beneficial to us. Because see we own – well, God I don’t know how many front feet. I
don’t tell them that because they don’t tax us. It’s undeveloped.
BC: Yeah.
BM: Sure.
JL: But Dad’s never paid taxes. It’s called wetland. And actually it is. It goes down toward
the USU building. There are a couple of houses and then the building is there.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: And it goes down there.
BC: When you’d go up there in the summer as a young child, did your dad stay up with you
for the whole summer or did he come back to Salt Lake?
JL: Oh, he’d come back, you know.
BC: Uh-huh.
JL: I think he just felt that he had to get back home. And he’d – sometimes he would stay up
an extra day or two, but he didn’t stay up like Mother did. But Mother would pack us up
and go in. Of course we had Mr. Coddle then and the store and that was fine. But that’s
no longer. It’s all so changed.
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BC: And would you spend any time up in the mountains hiking, riding horses or anything like
that?
JL: Huh-uh. No, nope. I just did it on the lake. And I rode horses on the lake.
BM: Huh. Now who had the horses?
JL: Oh, somebody local. Yeah. I’d say one of the Hodges I suppose. Yeah, even had my little
kids which weren’t so little anymore – although maybe he died. They tore – I’m so mad
at them, you know? Up there across the street from my place there was that old house and
then that little log cabin that was the original old house. And when they bought that land
they ripped it all down! And that was a terrible thing to have done! I mean that was kind
of a historical little old log cabin!
BM: Did you know the people that lived there?
JL: Yeah, I did. He was interested in nothing but the money. Ron Hansen was his name. But I
don’t know. Things will change, there’s no question about it. Gosh! I look up there to see
Dad and was sitting down on the porch that we added on outside, off the dining room –
the screened in porch. And it was right after he went up there after he had surgery.
BM: Hmm. So it was a place he went to recuperate and rest?
JL: Uh-huh. He loved it! He just loved it. And of course anything he did was for
improvement. Now if that lake will get back up, I will be ever so grateful. And it may.
Because the people who bought it from Scottish Power they can’t pump it anymore. They
used to pump it and pump it upstream (or downstream, whatever you want) on up into
Idaho, to give the farmers more, oh what do I want?
BC: For irrigation water.
JL: Yeah, for other chokecherry bushes.
BM: Oh.
JL: And they don’t do that anymore. They haven’t run the way -- . Yeah, they used to –
they’d sell the chokecherries all the time. In Garden City you’d go to the stand and buy
chokecherries.
BM: Huh.
JL: Take them home and put them in a pot and boil them up – ooh! Good!
BM: And ate them as what? As a sauce, or [unclear]
JL: No. Then you strain it and take it and thicken it as a chokecherry jelly or –
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BM: Sounds like one of your favorites!
JL: Oh yeah! Gee it was good!
BM: Huh. And so you put it on toast, or?
JL: Yes! Anything you’d put jam on! It was just delicious. And those days are gone! They
just are. I looked out – going up toward Logan out of Garden City – here all this is
subdivided down to that place, that new –
BM: That new development down there.
JL: Yeah, whatever that is. And I may not live to see it, but then I may live to see some, but I
guess it’s just going like crazy.
BC: It is.
JL: Is it?
BC: Yeah, I think it’s –
JL: People are buying it and building and so on.
BM: And it’s a beautiful place.
JL: Oh! Of course it is. It’s just lovely. And down to the boat marina.
BM: Do you remember the refuge? The wildlife refuge on the north end of the lake? Was that
there, or was that yet to be established? When you go past the boat marina and the state
park, and you continue north –
JL: Yes.
BM: Towards Montpelier, around the north end is now a National Wildlife Refuge.
JL: It is?!
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: Well, I don’t know. I’ve driven around the lake and I know people that live there.
BM: I’m trying to think of the year when that was established. Because I think you would have
been over there.
JL: Oh, I no doubt would have!
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BM: It’s waterfowl and swans.
JL: It’s beautiful! It’s more at the north end than the south end. Yeah. Yeah, I know where
you mean.
BM: Because part of the refuge – I’m wondering if you ever swam at this beach on the north
end of the lake called – North Beach State Park? Is that it?
JL: What is it called?
BM: The very north end of the beach – by the pump houses.
JL: Yeah, by the pump house.
BM: That’s a very popular swimming place.
JL: Well it is for the people that are up in Montpelier and Paris and St. Charles and so on, but
there are no – there are some hot springs over there too.
BM: That’s right.
JL: Yeah and they’ve been there forever because I was a little kid and Mother used to take us
to swim in it!
BM: At the hot springs?
JL: Yeah!
BM: Oh, really?
JL: So it’s really been there forever.
BC: Oh.
BM: That’s a very famous hot springs place. There was a hotel there.
JL: Yeah. I don’t think – yes, I guess there, but that was really in the 1800s wasn’t it?
BM: Yes, the late 1800s and 1900s.
JL: Yeah, I know. But Mom used to take us up there. She didn’t like us to go swimming too
much because she didn’t think it was very clean.
BM: Um-hmm.
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JL: Yeah, I don’t suppose it was. And anyway I don’t know whether there is still swimming
in there or not.
BM: There are still hot springs back there in that area but the building is gone.
JL: But the building is gone, so nobody really swims?
BM: I think only locals who really know it’s there.
JL: Oh.
BM: But that is more off the north east corner of the lake.
JL: That’s right.
BM: Back towards the Bear River and the mountains then, close to Wyoming?
JL: Yeah.
BM: My goodness. You really got around! Holy cow.
JL: And the Nebeker Ranch, which was big and now the kids are running it again. I don’t
[know] whose it is? Is it Paul? See Dad was partners with all those gentleman. Paul and –
BM: Um-hmm. Partners in the law firm, you’re saying?
JL: Uh-huh.
BM: Right.
JL: They’re all gone, but their issue is there. And I don’t know who is over in their house. I
know that the gals and boys – or boy and gal – that run the wonderful little stand that do
those little donuts – ummm. [Licking her lips]
[Laughing]
BM: Wait, what donuts are these?
JL: Uh, they just fry them right there. They are just little things like that. And oh boy! Are
they good! I want to go out and get them. And then they also – they had some, they
showed it to me anyway, chokecherry. But that is gone – that day and era. And you
know, that’s kind of too bad.
BC: Yeah, it is.
JL: I feel sorry about that. I used to pick them.
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[Tape 2 of 2: A]
BM: Tape 2, side 2[1].
JL: Yes.
BM: Here with Janet Quinney Lawson and we’re continuing with our Bear Lake stories.
So he still sails up there? Peter?
JL: Yes! And his kids; you know Peter’s kids are getting big! He married and he got these
two – after he was divorced from [?] and he remarried. And he has two little kids – three
and five. And that’s pretty little. They come up. They come up for a week or ten days and
they just love it and we love having them.
BM: Oh, I bet!
JL: And it’s the way it should be used.
BM: Now are they swimmers as well as sailors?
JL: Oh yes! Sure are. Is the Bear Lake monster for real?
BM: Ah! You remember the Bear Lake monster?
JL: Oh sure! [Laughing]
BM: Tell us about that.
JL: I don’t –
BM: I actually have that in my notes as one of the myths or legends about –
JL: Yeah, it is.
BM: So what did you hear about it?
JL: It’s exactly it – that it would come out and you better mind your p’s and q’s or it would
get you! And it was usually at dusk or after.
BM: Uh-huh. What did it look like?
JL: I don’t know! It sort of was large and it sort of had a long neck that would recoil in I
guess and just its head would be there; or it would be out standing up. What’s he got
here?
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[Reading] Is the Bear Lake monster for real?
Did I give you one of these?
BM: No, that’s fine, you can keep that.
JL: Don’t you want one?
BM: Nope, that’s fine. You can keep that.
JL: I’ve got more.
BM: That’s okay. On the monster, have you told your new grandchildren about this? Peter’s
children?
JL: Yeah, Peter’s. Uh-huh, two little fellows.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: Um-hmm.
BM: So they know about the Bear Lake monster?
JL: Oh they do! And they’re sure they saw it. And as a matter of fact sometimes, you know,
the 4th of July or 24th some boats get together and make a Bear Lake monster out of it. Oh
yeah, it’s fun.
BM: Well you know I also wondered if you fished there because there are fish in the lake.
JL: Yeah, but they’re trash fish usually, like the sucker. They’re no good eating, they’re
nasty. Yeah you can go and if you’re very patient and want to do it. The trout you just
can’t catch, but gradually I think it will restore itself.
BM: Um-hmm.
BC: What about your father? Did he fish at all?
JL: Oh yes! He was a great fisherman. Not really so much there, but yeah. But he fished
there, sure. But it just didn’t yield anything but carp and sucker. They were so stupid you
could catch them in a net.
BM: Wow. When you talk about Bear Lake – that’s a summer place and you’re a skier so
you’re coming down here to the Salt Lake City front – where was Beaver Mountain with
the development of that ski resort when you were a young child?
JL: It wasn’t.
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BM: It wasn’t there.
JL: No. That area was called Beaver Mountain. But I remember when it opened.
BM: You do?
JL: And I remember the people – I can’t tell you now, I just can’t – who opened it.
BM: Were those the Seeholzers?
JL: Yes, maybe.
BM: Okay.
JL: Maybe.
BM: And so, how old were you when that [Beaver] opened?
JL: I was probably 14 or 15 I think, because I raced up there.
BM: Oh you did!
JL: Yeah. And it wasn’t anything like it is now. I mean you have to go back up in, well that
wasn’t like that. It was, seems to me, you just go off the road and go on up.
BM: Um-hmm. Did it have a tow lift?
JL: Well, actually yeah it did, it had a tow. But it wasn’t developed really, [back] then it had
a single chair lift. I think it still does perhaps.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: I don’t know; I haven’t been up to it. I’m very naughty about that.
BM: It’s gotten pretty spiffy.
JL: I guess it really, really has and I guess it’s just wonderful skiing!
BM: Um-hmm. And the Seeholzer family still has the operation.
JL: The rights? They do? My word!
BM: And it’s grown. So you raced there as a child?
JL: Uh-huh.
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BM: Downhill ski racing.
JL: Uh-huh. And giant slalom, we did that there too. And we did slalom; yeah, we did all of
them.
BM: Were they also jumping up there?
JL: Not really.
BM: No?
JL: No, the jumping was mostly down here, up at Ecker Hill. [Ecker Hill is in Wasatch
County] I’ve got some pictures that Peter [Lawson] has restored (and maybe some of
them are up at the University, I don’t know) of the jumping days with Alf and Sverre and
Corey [Engen]. Now they’re all gone. I think, to my knowledge though, Alf’s wife
Evelyn is still alive. I’m not sure, but I believe she is.
BM: This is Evelyn Engen?
JL: Uh-huh.
BM: I’m not sure. I don’t know the name. I know the name Alf.
JL: Uh-huh, he was the older brother of the three. There was Alf and then there’s Sverre and
Corey. And they all moved over here gradually. And then their parents moved over here.
[Mrs. Engen moved to Utah, but her husband was deceased.] And she was Alf’s wife
(she’s a pain in the butt! That’s not nice, but anyway she is.) She lives on an old farm. I
think it’s an old farm. Maybe it’s not, maybe it’s out on the – I don’t know. It’s out there
in one of those condominium developments.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: And I’ve seen her on occasions at some gatherings skiing, but I haven’t seen her since the
last ski archives up there.
BM: At the university?
JL: No. Up at the – what do they call it? That what I’m trying to think.
BC: The University of Utah Ski Archives?
JL: Yeah, that’s what it is. And that’s called something – I can’t think what it’s called. [The
Alf Engen Ski Museum in Park City.]
BM: Is it Ski Meister? Or is that a magazine?
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JL: Maybe it is.
BM: Hmm. But they celebrate each year, and that’s what you’ve been back to? Hmm.
JL: I think Alf’s book or Corey’s book – was it Corey or Alf or Sverre? Maybe Sverre’s
book. Over there, can you see it?
BC: Yeah. There’s one called First Tracks?
JL: Yeah, that’s the endurance.
BC: Yeah. Let’s see –
JL: He’s gone.
BC: The Wasatch Mountains –
JL: They’ve all died but me. And as my Dad said, “You’re too ornery.”
[Laughing]
BM: So you’ve skied with all of them?
JL: Yeah.
BM: That was part of your –
JL: bringing up.
BM: Gee.
JL: Oh yeah. I skied, as I say, when you put the inner tube around your boot and binding and
that was at Ecker Hill, that’s where we went. So of course it was open. Unless you skied,
and we did later on and I did too. You know, you would drive up Silver King Mine and
hike up and over and drop down into Brighton and stay at [?]; Mrs. Howardy would run
that. The only way you could get in was to ski in.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: God it was fun!
BM: And the boys skied with the girls and you kept up with everybody? The boys kept up
with you?
JL: Oh, sure! Some girls – oh, Jenny Gurnsey, we were not best friends. Dear Aunt Em. I
wonder who lives in that house now?
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BM: In Logan?
JL: Aunt Em’s.
BM: Um-hmm. The Eccles House in --
JL: Not Bammie’s, but Aunt Em’s on the corner. Don’t know.
BM: I don’t know.
JL: She had an open house, somebody at Bammie’s house, and had it open and I couldn’t get
there for some reason and I wanted to. So I’ll have to call one day and see if I can go and
see her. I did a lot of growing up in that house.
BM: In Logan?
JL: You bet.
BC: In the summers or all year round?
JL: Mostly the summers. Well, we used to have winter there, Christmas.
BC: Oh.
JL: And Bammie would put one of the Christmas trees in the bay window on the second
floor.
BM: I bet that was beautiful.
JL: Oh, it was wonderful!
BM: And so you went up from Salt Lake to Logan for Christmas?
JL: Yeah, and stayed. Bammie had a whole house of people. Mother was there and of course
Aunt Marie was there but she lived in her own house I guess. I used to get so mad at her,
but it was George’s fault, he would just spoil her rotten, you know. All she did was feed
the kid, whichever one she had at the moment, and he would bring the baby to her.
Honestly! What a woman.
BM: So these Christmases, this was an annual thing? You went up every Christmas?
JL: Yeah, yeah. Until Bammie decided she wouldn’t stay there anymore. She went down to
California. And then we quit going up there and did Christmas at home. But Bammie
stayed there and then eventually of course we moved Bam down, moved her into the
Mayflower apartments [in Salt Lake City] where she died.
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BM: Can I ask you what Logan was like at that time?
JL: Well, it had the streetcar, you know? It went clankety, clankety, clank. And it had
Bammie’s electric car. “Clear, here comes Mrs. Eccles, clear the way!” And Bammie – it
had enough juice in it to take her from her house to Aunt Marie’s. Now that was a pretty
good haul up. Back wasn’t bad, but up was –
BC: Now is Aunt Marie [Marie Eccles Caine] the same – below the university they call the
Caine House?
JL: The old – yeah, yup.
BM: So right on the corner of 500 North –
JL: And – what is that?
BM: 600?
JL: It’s called “Something Way” or –
BC: Yeah.
BM: It goes right up past Old Main, they could probably see the Tower from their house.
JL: Oh yeah, they lived directly down, actually.
BM: So you went in an electric car from you aunt’s over there –
JL: It was fun!
BM: Oh my goodness, that’s interesting.
JL: It was very sad and I didn’t know it, but Uncle Spence sold Bammie’s [car] (it was the
second one she had too, it was in perfect condition). He sold it to the scrap yard.
BM: Sold the car?
JL: Yes!
BM: Why did he do that?
JL: Huh?
BM: Why did he do that?
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JL: Because the War was on and they needed it I guess. And Bammie wasn’t there to drive it.
I don’t think she was. Was she there? I don’t remember when she moved to Salt Lake.
BM: So this would have been the 1940s then when he sold the car?
JL: Yeah.
BM: Hmm.
JL: There’s a statue.
BM: There you go, that’s the sculpture.
JL: Then there’s that.
BM: Oh!
JL: That’s a miniature of the one that’s at Westminster.
BM: Okay.
JL: But it’s life-size; you can sit in a couch beside it. I was trying to think: who is that? I used
to go down to California and stay and visit Em and Noni.
BM: Now who is Noni?
JL: She’s the younger sister and she’s always lived in California, in Berkeley. Just over
almost to Piedmont.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: And Em – after Uncle Lee died – she moved down there and she lived with Noni until
Noni finally kicked her out. Here’s my mother. That’s Mother, and that’s Marriner and
that’s Ellen.
BM: Ellen?
JL: Bammie’s next-to-the-youngest.
BM: Oh, okay.
JL: And Merrill.
BM: And you remember them very well?
JL: Oh yeah! Sure, I stayed with them.
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BM: Did they ever come over here?
JL: Oh yeah.
BM: And to Bear Lake?
JL: Um-hmm.
BM: So you had company there quite often?
JL: Um-hmm.
BC: And that’s Marriner.
JL: Yes.
BC: Do you remember him at all when he was Secretary of the Treasury?
JL: Sure. I was back in Washington with him. I used to stay with him because I was in
barracks and I didn’t want to be in the barracks very much. So Uncle Marriner would say,
“Well come on; you come stay here if you want to. And just check in and out so I kind of
know what and how.” So I stayed at the [?] [whispering]. It’s kind of posh! It was very
posh because the other ones were over in Arlington. The barracks were just over the
Potomac River.
BC: So were you in the Navy, or?
JL: Yeah. I was in the Navy and I loved it! And I loved being in the Navy. And the only
reason that I got out was because I married Fred and I got pregnant purposely. Because I
couldn’t get out, I just couldn’t do it. Then I got pregnant and then I could. No reason I
couldn’t have stayed in.
BM: Hmm. When were you – what time period was this when you were back east?
JL: In the Navy before? Who’s that? Who’s that?
BM: Is that a bird?
JL: No, well I guess. I’m looking just over the fence and I think probably it’s the gardeners.
They moved that house.
BC: Oh did they?
JL: Uh-huh.
BM: Beautiful tree.
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BC: So did you join the Navy then?
JL: Yeah.
BC: And that was for World War II, or?
JL: When I got to be 21 I joined the Navy. I couldn’t before that, because my dad wouldn’t
give his permission and I had to have my parents [permission]. So finally I got to be 21
and bang! I joined it.
BM: So how did you tell them that you joined? Your parents?
JL: Very terrified.
[Laughing]
BM: Did you do it face-to-face or did you do it by phone?
JL: No, I did it face-to-face.
BM: Ooh.
JL: Boy Dad! Mother I didn’t care about; but Dad was going to be a case. And he was! He
practically went to Marriner to tell him to get me out of this thing. And Marriner said, “I
can’t do that!” Because he was still Head of the Federal Reserve back in Washington.
BM: Um-hmm.
JL: So there I was off to [?] college and boot camp. And then when I got out of boot camp I
went to Washington D.C. with a Bureau of Ships and that was great because it was a very
closed, small, what they call a “Blue Seal” office. Nothing ever went out of that office.
Everything was burned, had to be. We camouflaged all the battle ships and they would
send [?] to them. And we would take them and put them on a paper and scale them down
to – and put them on a paper and then put ships out there to see how the ships . If they
looked like ships something, blah, blah, or whether we would camouflage them so they
didn’t look like the ones that they were. It was fun, I like it. As a matter of fact I liked the
Navy. I really did. I had a great time. My father and mother had conniptions. But I was
21! And I just did it. I must have been a terror for them to raise and I think probably I
was. Dave wasn’t here, my brother. He was in Australia. No, was he in Australia? Yeah, I
guess he was; in the Army.
BM: So he couldn’t even be here to back you up?
JL: No, no. After I got out of the Navy I met – through the S.O.S. or S.S.?
BC: S.S. I think.
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JL: Yeah. And I got some kind of – not because of who I was but because of who I had been
in the skiing department and in the skiing mainly and so on, they wanted this run. And
now he or she is a wave and so on. We had fun. I had special [?] that brought me into the
studio and oh! Yeah, had a good time. I like it but I couldn’t stay in when I got pregnant.
Which I probably wouldn’t have gotten pregnant except that’s the only way and Fred had
been transferred to Ohio from D.C. and so the only way I could get there was to get
pregnant and get out of the Navy honorably. I did! Everything just went swell!
BM: And you came back here?
JL: No, I joined Fred in Dayton, Ohio where Rick was born. And that was something else
again. I thought Dad would have a fit! And I said, now never mind, I did this deliberately
and I’ll probably have another one deliberately. So anyway, I had the baby and stayed in
the Navy – or stayed in until Fred was released – and then we checked out and came here.
He’d never been here before. He’d never been west of the Mississippi I don’t think; poor
old guy.
BC: How did you meet Fred?
JL: In the Army-Navy picnic. Creek Park is where I met him. Although that was tough
because he was an officer and I wasn’t. And that made things a little tough sometimes.
But we managed, much to my father’s chagrin. I think he probably – what would he have
me – well I would have stayed in school I guess. I didn’t ever graduate from the
university. Because I was busy in the Navy and I did love it though. I really did. And it
was very good for me to do. And I was in a wonderful office in Washington, on
Constitution Avenue, in the Blue Seal Room. And that meant that upon opening and
closing that it was always locked. You couldn’t get in there unless you were admitted by
somebody who was your --. We were only about eight or 10 people in this particular
department. And we would camouflage the ships and put them on a board and look at
them out here and see if we had camouflaged out a stack; to change what kind of class it
was in. We burned everything, had to be burned. Nothing went out of that office.
BM: Do you remember where you were when the War ended?
JL: Sure. I was in Dayton, Ohio.
BM: Had you had your baby then.
JL: Yeah.
BM: Rick was already born?
JL: Yeah, Rick got himself up and born. An OB/GYN, who apparently was a very
outstanding and very something else – OB/GYN doctor – Kirschbaum, I think that was
his name. And boy, he took such good care of me. He thought this was the biggest joke
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on the Navy he’d ever heard. And so Dr. Kirschbaum, who was an outstanding,
apparently OB/GYN out of Chicago – he’s the one that delivered me.
BM: Hmm.
JL: Hardly got there in time. I didn’t have much trouble. Oh, I didn’t. Mother was very busy
trying on hats until Dad I thought was absolutely going to croak her.
BM: She was trying on hats while you were –
JL: In labor.
BM: Oh!
JL: Getting ready to go to the hospital. Because you know, where we lived Patterson Village
was a long way from – well, I guess it was at least a half an hour or 45 minutes away
from Wright Field where you had to go to have this baby. It was funny.
Did you see that? Emma Eccles Jones: Educator, Teacher, Friend. (6 March 1898—29
March 1991.) [From Utah State Magazine, Vol. 14 No. 2; Summer 2008]
BC: They published this for the dedication the other day.
JL: Yeah.
BC: Yeah. Somebody told me about it, but I hadn’t seen one yet.
JL: Well, that’s it. I won’t give it to you, but you can probably go and get one.
BC: I will. We’ll put it in our [Special Collections]. I work in the library, so we’ll put it in our
[library at USU.]
JL: Absolutely. I think Rick wrote a lot of it.
BM: Well, we’re just about at the end of our tape. So is there anything else that you would like
to add?
JL: No. What do you want to add?
BM: Well.
JL: Or ask? If I can fulfill –
BM: Well you know one question that we were really interested in, that you talked a little bit
about in terms of so many changes going on at Bear Lake. And Bear Lake and Logan
Canyon – you mentioned the road and the bridges. Are there any other significant
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changes or policies that you can think of that impacted the lake or the canyon while you
were going over there?
JL: Well.
BM: Or even events. Like the Depression, or civil rights, or anything like that?
JL: I went – where was it? You know, it’s about that road that goes up, up, up and comes to
where you turn off to go – what is that road called? The part of it?
BM: Is it the winding part of the road?
JL: No. It’s the one that goes up from the river, over the bridge – they had to redo the bridge
like completely.
[Tape 2 of 2: B]
Yeah. Gee that was a fun one. You know when you go at the top there on that Denny’s
dugway and then turn to get out, you used to go out and around on that point. You can
probably still see the road. And mother was driving this 7 passenger Buick you know it’s
just a big hunk of machinery. That was the climb. And you know, you didn’t just sort of
flip up there like you do now. It was fun though.
Mother was quite adventuresome. I don’t know, I guess she went up to the store and tell
Joan she was there. You didn’t go over Evanston because from Evanston over was dirt
road. All through Woodruff, Randolph up the canyon, it was all dirt.
BM: And you said you came then in most recent years, you came up through Evanston. Where
you going through Woodruff and Randolph at Deseret Ranch?
JL: Yes.
BM: Was that a place that you were in?
JL: Yeah we didn’t go into it. No, we stayed on the road that went past the horse racing and
we went up there and then we just zoomed and kept going until we got to Big Junction.
From there you can go to Jackson Hole or Bear Lake.
BM: Is that Sage Creek Junction?
JL: Yeah, it’s Sage Creek Junction. And yeah, it’s longer but well I just haven’t driven in
Logan forever. I was asking somebody the other day how it was. Could I get through the
canyon or couldn’t I? Cause I was thinking about going up that way.
BC: I think it’s pretty good right now. I don’t think there’s much going on now. So you better
do it this year because they might start all over again. [Meaning road construction.]
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JL: Yeah it I otta go. Why didn’t they leave it alone?!
BM: Cause there’s lots of skiers and lots of folks going up and down. And they are in a hurry.
JL: Well, do you think that they are to get up skiing to the meadows there, is it a lot faster
now with the road?
BM: It is. It’s a lot faster. You know 10 years I’ve been here, but it is a lot faster from what
people tell me. It’s still a beautiful ride.
JL: I know. It is. That’s the prettiest. The other one is just interesting kind of. Getting up,
over and dropping down.
BM: But it gets wicked in the wintertime with the weather.
JL: Well, yes it is. I guess it’s a hard road to maintain. They only open it up to the ski area. I
don’t think they open it up and over the top and down do they?
BM: They do keep it open now.
JL: Do they?!
BM: So you remember a time when the road used to just be opened to the top?
JL: Yeah.
BM: Hmmm. And did they gate it?
JL: No… they didn’t gate it. I don’t know. You just knew it wasn’t plowed. That’s how you
knew. You came to a grinding halt.
BM: And the last place you could get to was what? Beaver Mountain?
JL: Mm Hmmm. Yeah.
BM: That’s a truck route now, Janet, with a lot of trucks that go through there pretty much
year round.
JL: What? Bear Lake?
BM: Yeah.
JL: Oh. Over the new road?
BM: Yeah.
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JL: Oh I’m sure. There was a great increase even before they did this new deal as it started
down. What was it called? Denny’s dugway. I wonder if it’s… is it significantly better?
BM: They’ve taken some of the corners, they windy parts out.
BC: Probably the big thing was they’ve built in a lot of passing lanes, so that you know, if you
had a recreational vehicle that was going slower, they wouldn’t back it up as much. So
now you can get around some of the slower vehicles. It probably saves you 15 minutes.
JL: Honestly, who don’t go that way, go the way that’s not pretty just go to Montpelier
[Idaho]; that’s where people want to go I guess. Course Montpelier is a train …
BC: Train town.
JL: And there’s nothing in St. Charles. And there’s nothing in Paris really. And I don’t know
what they could build there. Or what they would have there.
BM: I think mostly the change now is just homes that are going in. Summer homes and some
are winter ski homes. But mostly just homes because some the ranches that were there are
much smaller or gone. But more, more homes.
JL: Between Montpelier and Lake Town?
BM: Between Paris, St. Charles, and then down I don’t know what the next town would be,
but along that side. Little by little…
JL: They are encroaching on my property and I don’t like it.
BM: Well, Janet, thank you so much for chatting with us this afternoon.
JL: Oh sure! I hope I’ve done something good. Well, if it isn’t right, or you need more
whatever, I will be aboard.
BM: Alright. Well, thank you very much for having us today. We appreciate it.
JL: I hoping I could get you something?
BM: You know I might take a glass of water now. Thank you.
JL: Um hum.